Talking to Kids

When we got married, almost 10 years ago, I didn’t know about my husband’s lifelong struggle with pornography.  Like so many young people, he got roped in younger than we like to admit is possible.  

Then he met me, and fell madly in love, and like nearly everyone who struggles with this thought, “Well, once I get married, that’ll take care of that.”  But, inevitably, he fell back into it.  We were married less than a year when I first found out he’d been looking at porn.  I was surprised, we were so happy.  Why would this be happening?  There was heartfelt apologies and promises and things were good.  And we moved on.  

And then it happened again.

And again.

And again.

It took years for us to understand what the addiction was serving -- the way the chemicals that the body created helped him maintain his status quo.  It numbed feelings of disappointment, resentment, and loneliness through the years -- the numbness addiction causes helped him be who he THOUGHT he was supposed to be.  He wanted his ‘problem’ to disappear -- but didn’t really want to do much to make that happen.

Well, a few years back, he hit what most addicts will refer to as their ‘rock bottom’.  He describes it not as if he had hit an actual bottom but that he just woke up one day and realized that he did not want to keep digging.  This is when we entered the world known as ‘recovery’ -- and life hasn’t been the same since.  

He proudly carries his SA sobriety chip on his keyring, and with about two years of sobriety under his belt, life is very different.  He takes late night calls from guys he sponsors, he calls me from work to let me know when he realized he was feeling frustrated or annoyed or angry with something, because he’s learned he can’t let feelings fester.  Greg has always been a wonderful, wonderful man, but my sisters love to tell me how much more alive and happy he seems in this last couple years.  

We schedule our week around LifeStar meetings, my work with Togetherness, and his SA meetings.  Our recovery life needs it’s own google calendar.  But we really have reached a point where we wouldn’t give back this experience.  What we’ve learned about ourselves, our relationships with each other and others, about the world we live in -- it’s invaluable.

One of our greatest takeaways from all of this, has been knowledge.

We now ‘get’ it.  OK, not all of it.  But a lot more than we used to.  We know what addiction is, how the brain works, the effects of shame and secrecy, why porn is so damaging, how our media feeds our pornified society, and mostly: we now feel armed, better prepared and knowledgeable when it comes to teaching our children about pornography.

I’m sure this is not uncommon among those who deal with addiction in your lives -- but my husband came from a family that did NOT talk about sex, pornography or anything ‘like that’.  For him it wasn’t even a sex talk.  His Dad once found a porn video in his brother’s room, and took it and said, “Don’t ever look at something like this ever again.”  And threw it in the trash.  End of discussion.  No questions about where it came from, or what other porn might be in the house, or just even how their three teenage boys were doing in life and if they had any questions. 

I love my in-laws.  They are wonderful people.  They just didn’t know any better.  They were uncomfortable, they were afraid to talk about things that could ‘arouse curiosity’ among their three boys, and they were just ill-equipped to have the discussions they needed to have.  They didn’t understand the technology that was rapidly changing their sons access to porn.  

We have no such excuses.  We KNOW how big of a deal this is.  We want to do better by our kids.  And fortunately, the very internet that we might all sometimes shake our fists out angrily, has brought the world to our fingertips when it comes to expert advice and suggestions and stories about how to talk to our kids.  I’ve included some great resources from online on your handout in your bags -- and I am confident there is something there that will help each and every one of you and your families.

I want to start off with things that help motivate me to become a voice in this battle -- but mainly, to be a voice in my own home.

NINE YEARS OLD

1.)  The average age of first exposure is 9 years old.  And the exposure they’re having isn’t what it used to be -- my husband was nine when he first saw porn, and it was like a topless picture in a magazine.  Kids now are finding, often on accident, some horrendously hard core porn at shockingly young ages.  I had a friend call me the other day in a bit of a panic, to ask me how to get filters on her computer, because she’d just walked in on her seven year old son looking at naked women online.  We have to talk about this so much younger than we think we do.

TELL AN ADULT

2.)  The highest indicator of whether a child go back to look at porn again is whether or not they’ve told a parent.  We have to have talked about before it’s an issue, so we can help arm them with a plan of what to do when they come across porn.  Because this is not ‘if’, it is ‘when’ they will see porn.  We need to instill in our children an understanding that they can talk to us about ANYTHING.  That they will not be met with shame or anger or criticism when they come to us with any and all of the hard stuff in their lives.  We have to build that environment.  And that doesn’t come from one or two of ‘the talks’ -- but from countless interactions; ongoing safe, consistent conversations.

IN OUR OWN HOMES

3.)  80%-plus of pornography exposure happens in the child’s home.  Now, this means we a can safeguard our homes -- to a point -- with external monitoring.  And that will help get rid of a lot of the accidental exposures that can lure a kid in.  But, we can’t guard everyone’s homes, and no filter is perfect, and everyone walks around with the internet strapped to their bodies on multiple devices at younger and younger ages -- so once we have a good external filter in place, we need to help our children build up a strong internal filter against pornography and the lies it tells.  

LOW-TECH SOLUTIONS

Geoff Steurer of LifeStar in St. George, Utah calls these ‘low-tech’ solutions.

Now, parents should take active measures to limit their kids exposure to porn, by installing filters, placing computers in safe locations, not allowing cell phones or computers in bedrooms at night, and establishing clear standards for media use.  But you also have to remember that these measures cannot fully protect children from exposure.

So, we know external monitoring isn’t enough -- so how do we help our children develop a sense of internal monitoring.

Experts say parents must teach:

- Healthy sexuality (even more important that teaching our kids to avoid porn -- we have to teach them the truths of healthy, wonderful, loving, intimate, whole sexuality -- so that porn will be an obvious second choice to the real thing.  

- The importance of avoiding pornography -- this is where we need to be clear in our own minds what our values and reasons are for avoiding porn.  And we need to understand how the brain works and why porn is addicting, so we can teach them these things -- I highly recommend “Fight the New Drug” to learn more about brain chemistry and addiction.  Then we can go into these conversations with some real facts and understanding in our back pockets.

- The need for open ongoing discussion about experiences with pornography -- remember, if they don’t come talk to you about it, their chances of looking at it again are huge -- so we need to teach them to ‘speak up’. 

MEDIA LITERACY

So, in most other first world countries, kids starting in Elementary School actually have classes in ‘media literacy’ -- we’re one of the few that don’t.  It’s basically teaching kids what media and advertising is trying to sell them and how it does that.  So they can watch an ad or a TV show or see a billboard and be able to break it down a little in their heads and see the messages without just unknowingly sucking them up like sponges.  We see thousands of ads a day -- and many, many of those are objectifying the female body to sell their message.  We have to help our kids be able to see through the facade, to deconstruct the messages they’re seeing, so they’re not blindly absorbing media all the time.  

Identifying truths among the lies around us is a critical skill in building up an internal filter against porn and against objectification.  We are our kids first teachers -- and especially in a country that won’t teach them any different, we need to help them identify the half truths and the lies, and call them out for what they are -- building in our kids the abilities to do it on their own.  This means rather than everyone in the room awkwardly ignoring a commercial, or a billboard on a drive, or a window display in the mall -- that we take those opportunities for what they are.  Teaching opportunities.  (Shay, what is it that Carl says to your boys when a commercial comes on that’s objectifying?)

We tell our children our truths about the human body, about objectification, about beauty and worth -- when we share OUR values and beliefs -- and not just let the world around us get away with going on and on about it all the time unimpeded. 

(I recommend the website “Beauty Redefined” to help you learn how to deconstruct these messages, so you can be better prepared to talk about them as you and your kids come across them.)  

TALKING OPENLY

4.)  Secrecy and shame are the lifeblood of addiction.  So we need to be able to talk more openly about pornography, media AND healthy sexuality -- that removes much of the mystique that sends kids searching on the internet.  

GOOGLE

And that’s important, because we must teach our children -- have this conversation, using these words, as soon as they are on the internet: DO NOT GOOGLE.  If it makes you uncomfortable or curious and you’re nervous to ask about it -- those are signs that googling may be a bad idea.  Most kids are coming across porn because they are seeking out answers to their questions -- we need to teach our kids to come to us for answers not google.  Because google doesn’t care that they’re 8 or 10 or 13 and they just want to know what a word means, or what a joke they heard meant.  Google does not care about what is age appropriate or what our values are.  It may be awkward or weird for them to ask what something means, but teach them that if they are old enough and mature enough to know what something means, then they are old enough and mature enough to ask someone about it.  

(Someone awesome at Togetherness mentioned how kids are looking for anonymous and nonjudgmental sources for their info -- and it’s our job to prove we’re nonjudgmental and teach them that what they really need is nonjudgmental and trustworthy, not anonymous.  She said it better, but it was an awesome concept and it came up again in our discussion).

STOP PRETENDING
The society we live in is saturated with pornography and media and objectification and advertising.  If we just pretend it isn’t, or pretend that this overly sexualized society we live in doesn’t have an impact our children, then we are practically doing addiction’s job!  Minimizing and secrecy are key to addiction.  Keeping quiet on the topic is one of the  worst ways to handle things.

Which brings us to talking openly.  I know there can be a fear about ‘if we talk about pornography, it might make the kids more curious.’  Children who live in homes where pornography and human sexuality are talked about openly and without shame, with parents who teach truths about the nature of the body and sexual intimacy as beautiful, wonderful things, are less likely to get sucked into the snare and lies of pornography.  

We have to understand -- pornography is a giant sex MIS-education.  It is out there working, every day, around the clock, to teach our kids it’s twisted version of sex and love and intimacy.  It’s lies.  It’s an ugly, empty counterfeit of something really amazing, it’s substituting thrill for actual connection.  

We need to be talking to our kids about what porn is, what lies it’s telling, what media and advertising is trying to sell us -- and not just products, but ideas.  Ideas of what’s normal and ‘hot’ in relationships, in sex, and with the human body.  If we see these lies, right alongside them, and have ongoing conversations where we share our truth with them -- I’m not saying they’ll avoid the lies and the porn completely -- but it won’t have the same affect on them.  If we teach our children they can come to us with questions and that we are OK talking about these kinds of things -- and if we talk about sexuality and intimacy as beautiful and wonderful and fulfilling, then we are building an understanding in them that will work against the counterfeit messages of porn.  

On the flipside, if we teach our children “there are some things we don’t talk about”, then we cannot be surprised when they won’t come talk to us.  They’ll go google -- and we know how well that turns out.

PORN IS NOT SEX -- PORN IS THE OPPOSITE OF SEX
In talking with our children, I have heard the messages to children that they shouldn’t look at porn because they are too young for sex.  Let me be clear -- pornography is not sex.  Do not teach your children they are in any way related -- teach them they are opposites.  

Pornography is an ugly lie about sex.  Pornography is sex mis-education.  We can’t just tell them, “Don’t look at it . . . no, no, no, no.”  Because they will come across it, and when they do, all they’ve been told is that ‘it’s bad.’

We need to teach them, arm them, with truth about the lies porn is selling.  Teach them this thing has been created to mock and minimize human sexuality and sexual intimacy -- that it is not how women and men should treat each other. We need to teach them what objectification is and why it is wrong. How it hurts them in their own future relationships.  That pornography shows selfishishness and concern only for our own gratification. It is divisive and uses people up, instead of being unifying and intimate.  It is a false representation of what women look like, act like and how they want to be treated.  

AROUSAL AND CURIOSITY ARE NORMAL

And our children also need to understand that pornography is perfectly designed to get their attention and create curiosity and arousal -- it was created that way on purpose -- they are bad not for feeling that way, their natural and beautiful instincts and body are being manipulated and taken advantage of.  We cannot create shame in them for being human beings.  For being curious.  For being aroused.  For being normal.  

For many who deal with addiction, their families share some patterns:

●      They were taught to be ashamed of their sexual feelings

●      They were taught all-or-nothing thinking in relation to sexuality (i.e. Good men aren’t even tempted by this stuff -- a good person would never look at porn) 

●      Their families never normalized sexual feelings -- nobody ever told them it was NORMAL -- they grow up thinking they are abnormal or deviant or even perverted for their natural and normal feelings.  

●      Their families lived in denial about adolescent sexual behavior (The fact is that your teens know many, many people who are looking at porn, sexting, posting sexy selfies, and sexually acting out with one another -- if you don’t talk about those things with them, they have no framework to process things in besides what the media gives them.  We cannot live in denial of the world they live in just because we wish it was different.)

These kinds of parental behaviors often lead to the very thing the parents are trying to avoid, because when we pair shame with normal sexual attraction, over and over, we are telling our boys and girls that there is something wrong with them. Shame is the fuel for addiction – why saddle our children with that? We’ve got to normalize sexual feelings and within that, teach self-control and respect and a ‘time and a place’. 

Our kids need to learn to do this in the context of the real world all around them -- and that can only happen if we’re actually addressing the real world around them.  If we’re recognizing it, identifying it and talking about it.  Pulling examples from the world they see and view and interact with every day. 

I was listening to a presentation by Geoff Steurer, (http://youtu.be/HzeJ3gKCuJE), talking at a Parent’s Night at an Elementary School, and he shared several first hand experiences with his 8 year old son.  He talked about noticing his son noticing magazine covers.  Or women in bikinis at the beach.  And how he basically said, “Yeah, I noticed that too. That’s normal,” and then shared some of his values -- of respecting women, of not just looking at people’s bodies because that really tell us much about them, and about giving women privacy when they’re not fully dressed.  

He said it was so important for his son to not walk away from those encounters thinking something is ‘wrong’ with him for being a curious human being just growing into some of these feelings and these things that are starting to get his attention.  But, to still be taught what standards their family had and why.  And why those standards were better for him in the long run.

IT’S NOT ABOUT A “PORN TALK”

I’ve talked so much about ‘pornography’, but really I want to come back to a core issue in all of this.  This is so much more than talking to our kids about porn.  It’s about teaching our children truths we want them to understand.  This isn’t about having a ‘sex talk’ or a ‘porn talk’, but about day in and day out building in them a foundation in how they view themselves and those around them.  Do you know when sex ed should start?  It starts when they’re so tiny, even babies -- it starts by teaching them proper names to ALL their body parts, teaching them respect for others, teaching them about love and closeness.  Building in them a sense of belonging and intimacy in their relationships, so they won’t be as taken in by counterfeits of those things.  

It starts with answering any and all of their questions about life -- without shame or embarrassment or frustration.  The younger they learn you welcome their questions, the better off they’re going to be.  Help them develop ownership over their own bodies -- caring for them, cleaning them, and also being able to make boundaries about who they want hugging and kissing them, and how much and how often.  In teaching them they have ownership over their own bodies, you’re helping arm them against abuse.  Also, you can use the same lessons in teaching them about respecting others bodies and space and boundaries.  As they grow, we need to be open to whatever conversations come -- and we need to reiterate to them that we welcome their questions and these conversations.  We can’t act like we dread them.  

QUESTIONS ANSWERED

My Mom always seemed unfazed by our multitude of questions.  It wasn’t until I was grown and we were talking and laughing about some of the conversations we’d had that she admitted her panic and lack of confidence behind the scenes of her motherly-poker-face that made her seem to calm and collected.  The result of her being willing to shelf her discomfort was countless conversations -- in fact, it became so well known that our Mom would answer any of our questions, that my sister would come home from school some days with a list of words and phrases her friends wanted definitions for.  I was probably 17 when I was driving in the car with my 8 year old sister, and she loudly called from the back seat, “I heard a word. What does ejaculation mean?”  Eeep!  But, I gave her a very basic, almost clinical answer, and she was satisfied.  Imagine if she hadn’t felt comfortable asking the trusted adults or almost-adults in her life questions.  

Imagine how different the answer she could have found on google would have been, verses my two or three line answer that completely satiated her curiosity.  

OBSERVERS AND QUESTIONERS
Geoff Steurer, again, also talked about how we need to become observers and questioners.  We need to watch, where are our kids spending their time, where are they going on the internet, where to their eyes go and linger when it comes to ads, magazine displays in grocery stores and at others in public.  If we are watchful, we can figure out the clues as to what conversations we can be having.  Because for one kid a conversation at nine years old would be total overkill, for another it might be coming too late.  And we need to ask questions.  Not nosy, in your face questions, but one of the best ways to find out what they need to talk about is to ask questions.  Open ended questions.  My friend would ask her kids, ‘Was there anything you didn’t understand at school today?’  The more questions the better.  Our homes need to be places of questions and answers.  When we ask them questions, we’re actually modeling for them exactly what we want from them.  

OBJECTIFICATION IN SOCIETY

We also need to be teach them to respect each and every person as a real human being, with emotions and hopes and dreams, and not just a body -- because really, if we are looking at each other through that lens, then there really is no room for pornography, is there?  I want you to think about websites like “people of Walmart” or youtube videos of people getting hurt, or using what another person does or looks like to amuse us.  I’ve seen pictures of random people in stores taken by my friends and posted on facebook to mock or belittle how that person looked -- and it breaks my heart.  It is objectification and cruel.  It is devoid of compassion and it a precursor to being able to look at people only as entertainment or as parts.  It is part of what is wrong with our society that allows pornography and abuse and cruelty to run amok.  We have to help our children HUMANIZE everyone around them.  If we teach them compassion; maybe help them see how a mean kid at school is dealing with their own pain and fears -- then it becomes more difficult for them down the road to reduce people to parts if they’ve been trained up to see people as whole and complex and real.  

BEING TRUTH TELLERS

I wish I could give you perfect scripts of what to say -- and there are some great resources that will go into those a little more, even with some fun role plays you could try out with a friend -- but I want to share a few keys to teaching truths:

    When you see a lie, correct it.  (Be mindful of the lies your kids are seeing -- know your own truth so you know how you want to address things).

    Ask questions and be available to answer questions.  

    Share your values (this is another reason there is no script -- because it is our job as parents to define and teach our values as we feel are best.)

    Repeat (again and again)

    

Learn all you can -- every time you learn something new, your child is safer.

I said it at the beginning -- the blessing of the hell that addiction has been, has been knowledge.  I will approach this SO much differently because of what I’ve learned through my husband’s addiction.

Now, all that said, I do want to give you two ‘script-y’ type things to help you talk to your kids about this, and establish some things that might help in your homes.

REJECT (Dr. Jill Manning)

1.)  Teach them what to do if they see pornography.  

            R Recognize it as pornography.  You will have to talk to them about your definitions of what is pornographic.  That can start really general with ‘people without enough clothes on’, and will probably be refined as they get older, talking about pictures or other things that arouse feeling in their bodies.  Recognize it can be both ‘uncomfortable and icky feeling’ and ‘intriguing and makes me curious’ -- both are normal responses, and make sure your conversations acknowledge that.  

            E Escape -- this is the shut your eyes, cover your ears, kill the power, whatever it is.  Talk to them about almost the porn-fire-drill, just so when it happens they immediately have it in their heads what to do.  
            J Judge it as a lie -- identify the message that is a lie

            E Expose the exposure -- TELL someone.  This is huge.  I’ve heard people having a ‘ten minute’ rule, or if it’s an older teen maybe a text or call to someone right away.  Accountability so the secret doesn’t fester.

            C Control porn’s access to you -- don’t put yourself in situations you come across it -- and when you do, learn from that and adjust
            T Turn to something else. Make your brain go to something new -- purposefully turn your attention and activities elsewhere.

CAN DO from “Good Pictures, Bad Pictures”

Another one, probably better suited to a little younger kids:

C - Close my eyes, turn away, hit the power and turn off the device.

A - Alert a trusted adult
N - Name it -- name pornography when I see it.
D - Distract myself with something new
O - Order my thinking brain to be in charge.  This book for kids is pretty cool because it does go into a little of the brain stuff and it does talk about how our brains work a bit -- and it identifies our need to tell ourselves to stop and think before acting, and to keep our ‘thinking brain’ in charge.  

So much of this will be dependent on how old your kids are, and where they’re at in life -- but just know that the more you learn, the better armed you are to teach truth to your kids.  I think everyone in this room has a solid understanding that pornography can be addicting, harmful and it will affect relationships.  It can seem hard to take these hard truths we’ve learned and get that understanding to our kids in age appropriate ways.  Just start small.  Have conversations.  Be educated.  Share something you’ve learned.  Know what you believe and why you believe it -- and share that with your kids.  Be observant -- what are they noticing, reacting too, blushing because of, shying away from?  

BE DIRECT

And be direct -- pornography and our culture is not pulling any punches here.  You need to speak more truth, more boldly, then the world will tell your kids lies.  And you can do that in a way that is perfect for your kids.  Just keep trying.  Admit when you make mistakes -- if you have to go home from this and tell your kids, “Um, so, I’ve totally messed up how we’ve talked about this -- can we start over and I can share with you some things I’ve learned,” then you’ve taught them that there is no shame in admitting mistakes, and that going and asking plainly for what you need and sharing what’s important with your family is more important than your pride -- and THAT sounds like it’s own success!  Isn’t this what we want from our kids, their openness and honesty about the mistakes they’ve made and the things they’ve learned and the changes they’re making.  What better way to teach it then to model it!

VARIOUS QUOTES/SCRIPTS:
I spoke to youth 14-18 recently, and I shared this, “Young men, do you realize that if you fill your mind with one music video after another, TV shows with suggestive scenes, spending all day hooked up to media and seeing the thousands of ads, each one showing you a fake picture -- a counterfeit of reality -- one human body after another posed unnaturally, made up, fake tanned, photoshopped, unrealistic bodies -- the message that the physical body and its attractiveness are the most important part of women.  What does that do to the value of real women in your life?  If your mind has spent all its free time taking in these made up versions of women where all the focus is on their bodies, whether in pornography or fantasizing or in day to day media and ads, what does that start to tell you about the human body.  What does it do to devalue all the other real women and girls around you -- who will never ‘stack up’ to what media says is perfect and desirable.  You could miss out on the opportunity to fall in love with a beautiful young woman one day, because she doesn’t look ‘perfect’ and that’s all you’ve told your brain is important.  This is the counterfeit that reduces the value of real bodies.”

Some examples from Deanna Lambson, who teaches workshops in Salt Lake:

“Kiddo, our world is pretty tough right now because there’s a lot out there that doesn’t value family and love the way we do. I want you to know that I love your dad. He has made some very painful and bad choices to view pornography. He was younger when it started and he didn’t realize how addictive it was. And now, he feels trapped and it is very, very hard. I know you have noticed that sometimes there is tension or sadness between us. This is something that Dad needs to resolve and the two of us will work through. He has a choice to heal or not heal. But I love you too much not to tell you the truth. Daddy has a choice to make. And sometimes the wrong choices of others hurt us. But it is not my fault, and it is not your fault. We still love him and we will support him. But we can make different choices. Have you sometimes wanted to look at pornography? Is there a way we can help each other make a better choice?”

“You know, I was thinking the other day about romance and sex that we often see in the movies or on the Internet. Did you know that it is totally fake? Real love is not fake but what you would see on the Internet definitely is! Sexuality is such a personal, sacred thing that anybody who puts it out there for show is not experiencing or showing real love. They’re just acting, and sometimes they are disrespectful and crude and demeaning and ugly or even violent. That is not real love. Real sexuality is the sweetest, most bonding, and tender thing in the world. That’s why I don’t ever want you to confuse the fake stuff with the real stuff.  The Internet is full of lies about sexuality and love. Sex is not something we talk to our friends about because it is so sacred. But you can always trust me with the things you wonder about.  Are there any questions about sex that you want to ask me? I will always tell you the truth.”

“Honey, if you ever see something on the Internet that seems weird or scary or makes you uncomfortable, don’t ever think that you can’t tell me. I want you to tell me! And I promise you that you will never be in trouble for telling me about it. In fact, I’ll be super proud of you for telling me! Have you seen anything recently that worries you?”

“Buddy, I was thinking today about how totally normal it is for a boy your age to be curious about sexuality.  I know you’ve probably seen some offensive things because of the world we live in. But if you have, know that you are not a bad person. It is just a really tough world. Can you tell me the last time that you saw some sexual images online? What do you do now to keep yourself from being pulled in? Can we come up with a plan together? As a family, we’re in this together.”

Just start.  Start talking, start asking, start noticing.